Friday, May 11, 2012

Judo vs. Wrestling

The 1914 match between American catch wrestler Ad Santel and 5th-degree judo black belt Tokugoro Ito was an early gi vs. no-gi showdown.
A notable match in 1914 was between two prime representatives of their respective crafts: the American catch wrestler Ad Santel was the World Light Heavyweight Champion in catch wrestling, while Tokugoro Ito, a 5th degree black belt in Judo, claimed to be the World Judo Champion. Santel defeated Ito and proclaimed himself World Judo Champion.
Catch wrestlers like Frank Gotch and Martin "Farmer" Burns weren't wearing gis while they were submitting opponents in the late 1800s. And they weren't the first.

I did judo when i was a teenager for six years.
Now i'm a olympic wrestler and grappler (No-gi and Gi FILA Grappling).
I am not for a second going to suggest I am very good at it or an expert, but IMO wrestling beats judo easily.
Judo is a good sport, especially for children, because most importantly it gives you balance and ability to feel your opponents balance. It also develops hips which is good for just about wrestling.
Still wrestling does all that, and so so much more. Wrestlers are the strongest people on this planet.
In Judo competitions you basically hold each other's sleeve and run around in a circle, until one opponent looses a bit of balance and or makes a mistake, which is all jolly and nice, but a good Thai Boxer will ruin you if you just try to grab him.
The other thing is the damn belt. Gi can sort of simulate the casual clothing they used to wear in 17th century Japan, but its not really applicable to todays street clothing.
Everyone has two arms, two legs, and a neck to grab, so Wrestling is the better way.

Judo is stated to have started in the 1800's A.C with Jigoro Kano. You could argue its roots started earlier. Earliest depiction of Wrestling dates back to 2000 B.C. So while both have moves in common, wrestling was the origin and the throws were adapted in Judo.
All nogi judo throws are included in Freestyle Wrestling. Also what its a "judo throw" considering that the most succesful judo throws are also heavily used in international Freestyle Wrestling not only in european/russian and asian wrestling tournaments. MMA competitions : there are a lot of UFC, Bellator and Pride Fc champions whit Wrestling background and ZERO male UFC champions from pure judo base (Taktarov was also a sambo fighter).    There are a lot of judo fighters vs. wrestling fighters in MMA. In UFC 4 Dan Severn defeated Joe Charles and Oleg Taktarov. Frank Sharrock slammed russain judo-sambo master Igor Zinoviev with a freestyle wrestling throw. Dan Henderson defeated asian judokas Akira
Shoji, Shungo Oyama and Kazuhiro Nakamura.  Joseph Benavidez taking down (two time) japanese judo player Yasuhiro Urushitani , Chad Mendes taking down 4 time the silver medalist in judo asian championships Michihiro Omigawa. These japanese judoka scored 0 takedowns and were defeated!  Brock turned to mixed martial arts in 2006, and in his first fight took only 69 seconds to destroy Olympic judo medalist Min Soo Kim with strikes that led to a submission. Taylor defeated world class judoka Yoon Dong Sik with a freestyle wrestling takedown. Tim Boetsch defeated judo olympian Hector Lombard. Michael Chandler destroyed with takedowns Judo Olympian Rich Hawn. See Tate or Sara McMann vs japanese judoka Hitomi Akano. Akano was slammed by Sara McMann and taked down easly. Female Wrestling is a green sport and the first Olympic competition started only in 2004. The international level is far distant to male Freestyle Wrestling but there are a lot of  female wrestlers in top MMA ranking :

Tate taked down three time the japanese judoka. And MMA fighters with judo base train WRESTLING. See Karo Parysian, Rousey and Satoshi Ishii. See Leo Frincu vs Karo Parysian (not only judo champion but MMA fighter). Frincu is near 10 years older older and over 30 lbs smaller.
The big difference is that Ronda is a world class athlete and in women martial arts judo is an high level sport since 1992. Olympic Woman Freestyle Wrestling started in 2004 and Tate wrestled only in collegiate wrestling. There are big differences in collegiate, freestyle and greco roman. Collegiate Wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling are two different beasts. In Collegiate Wrtestling you can't throw a man on his head and you can't slam him. In judo and sambo you can throw a man on his head (not in bjj) but you can't slam him. In judo single/double leg takedowns are banned. In Freestyle and Greco Roman Wrestling you can throw a man on his head and you can slam him. Jon Jones has Folkstyle/Greco Roman and background and used a lot of Freestyle Wrestling techniques like others UFC champion and Daniel Cormier (see Cormier def judo black belt big foot Silva). Greco Roman and Freestyle are upper body oriented styles with a lot of clinch game and throws. If you see Russian national Freestyle Wrestling you can see a lot of clinch wrestling, throws, sweeps and good single/double. Tthey've spent years working out how to transfer traditional wrestling styles, judo and sambo to mix with Freestyle and Greco for a jacketless environment. GSP train with russian wrestling coach Victor Zilberman and GSP throw a lot of former collegiate wrestlers from the clinch!
Olympic Wrestling and collegiate wrestling are two different combat sport. UFC champion like Jon Jones, Dominick Cruz, Benavidez, Ben Henderson, Frank Edgar etc have freestyle /or greco wrestling background. Not only folk american and this is very different. There are many UFC champion with wrestling background and 0 UFC champion with judo background. There are 5 bellator fc champion with wrestling background and only one champion from judo. Olympic greco roman wrestling gold medalist Rulon Gardner (without MMA experience) vs Yoshida, olympic judo gold medalist with a lot of MMA experience.
The opinion of Marcelo Garcia  about judo vs wrestling :
Wrestling techniques are effective with and without judogi.  Former wrestler Naidan Tuvshinbayar won olympic gold medal versus former judo gold medalist with wrestling technique :
From Ad Santel to Jon Jones Wrestling won!

Thursday, May 3, 2012

Freestyle vs. Folkstyle Wrestling : Two Different Beasts in Two Totally Worlds

Wrestling is a form of combat discipline involving grappling type techniques such as clinch fighting, throws and takedowns, joint locks, pins and other grappling holds. A wrestling bout is a physical competition, between two (occasionally more) competitors or sparring partners, who attempt to gain and maintain a superior position. There are a wide range of styles with varying rules with both traditional historic and modern styles. Wrestling techniques have been incorporated into other martial arts as well as military hand-to-hand combat systems and can be used as a self-defence technique

 Wrestling styles defined by FILA, are broken down into two categories; International wrestling styles and folk styles. According to the FILA, there are five current International wrestling styles acknowledged throughout the world. They are Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, Grappling, Beach Wrestling and MMA.

Collegiate wrestling (sometimes known as scholastic wrestling or folkstyle wrestling) is the commonly used name of wrestling practiced at the college and university level in the United States. This style, with modifications, is also practiced at the high school and middle school levels, and also for younger participants.
Freestyle wrestling, like collegiate wrestling, has its greatest origins in catch-as-catch-can wrestling and, in both styles, the ultimate goal is to throw and pin your opponent to the mat, which results in an immediate win. Freestyle and collegiate wrestling, unlike Greco-Roman, also both allow the use of the wrestler's or his opponent's legs in offense and defense. Freestyle wrestling is the most complete style of standup wrestling and bring together traditional wrestling, judo and sambo techniques.

Collegiate Wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling are two different beasts. Freestyle Wrestling (like greco roman) is stand up wrestling style, has a very strong upper body and clinch game.  In the international styles you work to take advantage on your opponent strenght and momentum. In freestyle you can apply high amplitude throws and you can slam your opponent. In folkstyle simply you can't. In judo and sambo you can't slamming your opponent.


Russian freestyle wrestling is perfect for MMA : clinch game, explosive throws, sweeps and good single/double leg takedowns. Russians wrestlers have spent years working out how to transfer a lot of soviet traditional wrestling styles judo and sambo techniques to mix with Freestyle and Greco for a jacketless environment. In Freestyle and Greco you tain to return immediately on your feet during ground wrestling. Infact you must defend turns and lifting.

Russia and a lot of post soviet states have the best wrestling schools in the world and wrestling is the national sport (like Mongolia, Turkey, Iran and several russian republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, Ossetia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Uzbekistan).
Russia and Soviet Union dominate olympic wrestling scenario in Freestyle and Greco Roman from 1950. Freestyle Wrestling is also very strong in Germany (see bundesliga), Kazakhistan, Turkmenistan, USA, Cuba, Greece, India and Pakistan.

Freestyle Wrestling vs. American Folkstyle : stand up wrestling vs mat wrestling.